Trying once again.

This topic contains 30 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by tramcaur 8 years, 9 months ago.

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tramcaur

3:16 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

I am 69 years of age and well overweight. Actually about 80kg overweight!!!!
I have tried the 5:2 diet before, but became very confused with the fact that I can eat small amounts during Fast Days.
My problem is that once I eat anything at all, I just want to continue eating and really I feel better if I do not eat anything at all on Fast Days.
This is Week 1 and I have completed 2 days on Fast where, on each occasion I have not eaten anything for 24 hours apart from sips of Pepsi Max and drinks of water.
Whilst these were difficult days, they were not impossible and I imagine, with time, these will become easier.
As I am carrying an excessive amount of weight, at the moment, exercise is a no no, but again, in time and once my energy levels increase, the dogs will start getting longer walks and, sometime in the far distant future, I may even drag the old bicycle out and get it on the road.
I am hoping that in 3 or 4 years’ time I will be able to get into my Kilt again. At the moment, the only way I could wear it would be to put it on Up-Side-Down!!!!!

Pot-bellied Heron

3:44 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

I find eating nothing is the best strategy too. Surely if you’re fasting for an entire waking day, plus a night’s sleep you’ll be fasting for at least 36 hours though, not 24. That’s how most of us do it anyway.

Good luck!

tramcaur

3:59 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi Potbellied Heron, Thanks for the fast reply.
Yes, I will eventually get to the 36 hour bit, but at the moment I have to take pretty strong medication at night and I need to have taken something to eat before I take this.

I am due a visit to the clinic next month and I will discus this with them and see if we can work something out that will allow me to do the 2 nights and a day bit.

JFitzy

4:15 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi Tramcaur you don’t have to do a 36 hour fast. However if you find it easier not eating at all then that is fine too. If you need to take your medication going to bed in the evening, and if you haven’t eaten since the night before, then you can have your 600 calories (or less if you want) then that way you will have done a 24 hour fast.

On my fast days I sometimes have all my calories in the evening so will have done a 24 or 25 hour fast. However sometimes, especially in the cold weather, I split my calories and have 200-250 for lunch and the balance for dinner.

Really it is what works for you as everybody is different.

Good luck 🙂

tramcaur

4:25 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Thanks for the reply JFitzy.
Yes, I have kept the supper food to well under the 600 cal. Just a couple of hard biscuits with some low fat cheese on them.

Although only on this for a week, I can already see some improvements, but any real change will become apparent (for good or for bad) when I attend the clinic next week!

QuietOne

4:52 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Tramcur I’m definitely in the no food at all camp.

I’m water only. I found that even zero calorie artificially sweetened drinks would trigger my “I need something sweet” feelings.

I’ve read in several places that “most” artificial sweeteners “probably” cause the same insulin response as would sugar. Pure unrefined Stevia, dried or tinctures made with fresh or dried stevia “may” be the exception. The science isn’t in on it yet.

It wasn’t until I went to nothing but distilled water on fast days in conjunction with 4+ to 5 day fasts once a month that good things started happening with my blood sugar levels.The turn around was incredibly quick went it did occur. One 5 day fast and my sugar levels dropped and I’ve never gone back to prediabetics levels.

I’m a strong believer in setting short term realistic goals. The quickest way to reach your goal is to set your TDEE for your goal weight and eat to that level. However this can be a major adjustment that is difficult to adjust to. If you find that is the case set your TDEE for -10lbs of your present weight. Each time you hit that weight goal recalculate for 10lbs less.

The 5:2 pattern is doable it just takes a bit of won’t power. “I won’t eat what will take me off the path to my goals” I know easier said than done.

tramcaur

5:11 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Thanks QuietOne.
I do not know my weight at present as I do not have access to big enough scales. Will probably need the vehicle weighing scales at our local builder’s yard!!

I will get weighed at the clinic next month and start calculating from there, meanwhile I am happy enough to see the changes in my energy levels and general mobility.

I do understand the idea of “setting small targets” and then ticking them off as I reach them, but just now and until I get “officially weighed” I have to keep in mind the overall goal of just why I am doing this and to help me understand that this is a long term diet and not a flash in the pan one.

I have lost (and regained worse than ever) weight in the past with other diets, but I honestly do believe that the 5:2 is a sustainable and importantly, uncomplicated way of life, that will, in time, get me to where I want to be.

QuietOne

5:28 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

I know where you are coming from. I refuse to call 5:2 a diet. Diets don’t work and I’m living proof having tried most of them in my 62 years.

I wish they’d never called it a diet but they have and I just have to get over it. I call it a pattern of eating.

I have a friend here who was 85Kg overweight. When he saw the changes I was going through after I’d been on the 5:2 pattern for 6 months he inquired and then he started 5:2 6 months ago. After a month he switched to 5:2 with IF where he eats only a light soup for lunch less than 120 calories and a normal supper. In six months he has dropped 31Kg (68 pounds) His weight loss in six months exceeds mine in a year.

You are exactly right in saying 5:2 is uncomplicated and sustainable. Good luck on your journey let us know how you’re making out as you move along.

tramcaur

8:06 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi QuietOne, <<< let us know how you’re making out as you move along. >>>

I certainly will and that is an amazing weight loss for your friend and something I will try to emulate.

Although I do have “goals”, and weight will play its part in these, my goals are not quantifiable. IE, they are not a certain amount of Kg or Inches.
They are to do with me personally and are the difference between what I cannot do at the moment, but would like to achieve in the future.
Daft things like being able to go for a long walk with my dogs, or able to get in and out of my caravan without hanging onto something.

I have had replacement knees for 7 years now. I am due a new set in 8 years time, but if I do not lose a considerable amount of weight before then, then the surgeon will not give me new knees.

The diets I tried before were all about weight, weight, weight. It became an obsession. Hopefully this way will just be a gradual awareness that as time passes I can find myself doing things that I couldn’t do last week, last month, last year.

QuietOne

11:35 pm
26 Jan 16
Permalink

I suggest the that you get a notebook just a cheap wire spiral bound thing or even just two sheets of lined paper side by side will do.

On the first page write down every reason you can think of why you want to change how you eat. How you want to change the way of eating in your life and your relationship with food. What you do now that is causing you to be in this point in your life.

Really spend some time with this. Quiet total evaluation of where you are right now and every reason for change. Write where you are and what your relationship with food is at this point. Ie. I don’t like what I’ve become due to my eating. I won’t be the fat granny anymore whatever it is that is a reason for your changes. I want to avoid get dementia at 45 50 60 65 70 etc

Then on the second page write down what your goal is. Goal weight? Health benefits? Dress or clothes you can wear. Have a clearly defined and realistic goal, becoming a runway model probably isn’t realistic but if it is to you then write it down.

To get to page two what are you willing to do? Think about this really deeply and consider the ramifications of what you are about to undertake.

Look at the two pages. Do everything that is in line with your goal(s)eat less, fast longer, move more. Be the person you envision in your goal. You become what you envision and believe.

Don’t do anything that takes you away from the path to your goals.

A caveat here. Do NOT let 5:2 be a chore or a burden, if you do you will go off it. 5:2 has to become natural and as easy as breathing that is what to strive for. Embrace the hunger and be totally in awe at the taste of a strawberry after a 36 hour water fast. That shear ultimate intensity of that first bite of watermelon after a 5 day fast. Find the joy in being you.

I intentionally go off 5:2 for periods and I do over do it somewhat. I don’t go whole hog. (Though I’ve cooked a few and heavily partaken) I know I’m going to gain some weight during these times. 5 – 10 pounds I know that. I’m willing to undertake the consequences for what I do. When my “indulgence time” is up say a three week holiday with kids and grand kids or what have you. I get right back on 5:2 and I stay focused.

Know yourself. Let your life be joyful, it can be if you let it. Laugh more. Hug more. Smile at the little things. Take time to just be. 5:2 can help greatly in all this. Stay focused and mindful.

It’s when we “forget” where we came from and where we are headed that we get lost.

I started 5:2 for the health benefits and I’ve gotten that in spades in the past almost 13 months. The weight loss is a free bonus I got for enjoying better health

tramcaur

12:21 am
27 Jan 16
Permalink

<<<I won’t be the fat granny anymore whatever it is that is a reason for your changes. >>>

Fat Grandpa maybe, but definitely not a Granny!

<<< becoming a runway model probably isn’t realistic >>>

What? Not an OAP Chippendale???
Dratt.

I will reread your post in the morning when I am slightly more compos-mentos!

Had a good day and have thoroughly enjoyed my food. It tastes so much better after a fast day and I eat less than I normally would.

tramcaur

4:48 pm
27 Jan 16
Permalink

I have read over all the answers and I am taking notes on it all.

Today ends my first week and my painkillers, that I was taking 8 a day just to get through the day, today is nil.
Whether that will last or not, well I will wait and see, but I have managed to walk the dogs (between downpours) and stand at the cooker to cook the dinner. Both of these activities would have been impossible without a hefty doze of PK’s before.

Tomorrow is the start of the second week and this time I will try to extend the fasting time.
I will continue with the Water/Pepsi Max routine, but nowt else.

Thanks everyone for your advice and tips.

tramcaur

1:08 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Could someone please explain to me what TDEE stands for?

While I can see the advantages of being able to have 500/600 cals a day on the Fast Days, does eating things on a Fast Day really make it a “Fast Day”.
I always presumed that a Fast implied that you did not eat anything at all during the period of the Fast?

JFitzy

1:27 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi Tramcaur

Your TDEE stands for total daily energy expenditure which is the amount of calories you should be eating per day in order not to gain weight. So if you stick to your TDEE and fast 2 days per week you will lose weight as you are reducing your calorie intake accordingly. For example I exercise between 3-5 times per week and my TDEE is 2100 calories. However on a normal day during the week I probably wouldn’t get there but then I might go over at the weekends as I have wine but it all averages out.

Some people on here take fasting literally – i.e. they don’t eat anything for 36 hours. I for one cannot do that and 5.2 means 5 days of eating your TDEE or below if you wish and 2 days of reduced calorie intake so 500 for ladies and 600 for men. Depending on how much weight you need to lose you are probably looking at a 0.5 – 2 lb loss per week but it is different for everyone.

I hope that helps 🙂

tramcaur

1:40 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Thanks JFitzy.

One of the things that attracted me to the 5:2 regime was that I found all other diets far too complicated.

On 5:2 I get up in the morning and just don’t eat anything. I don’t need to think about calories either taking them or burning them and I don’t need a calculator (Weight Watchers) or a food directory (Slimming World) just to get through my day safely.

So thanks again. For now and until I see any need to refine it, I will just stick to the fasting.

JFitzy

2:04 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

You are welcome – but don’t forget this is not a diet it is a way of eating which still allows you to enjoy the food you like without stressing if it is high in carbs etc!

QuietOne

3:17 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Total Daily Energy Expenditure is based on your Basal Metabolic Rate which is the amount of energy your body needs to just exist and breathe in a total resting state. Then you calculate your TDEE

Men BMR = 66 + (13.7 X weight in kg) + (5 x height in cm) – (6.8 x age in yrs)

Then you calculate your TDEE
Sedentary Little or no Exercise/ desk job
TDEE = 1.2 x BMR

Lightly activeLight exercise/ sports 1 – 3 days/ week
TDEE = 1.375 x BMR

Moderately activeModerate Exercise, sports 3 – 5 days/ week
TDEE = 1.55 x BMR

Very active Heavy Exercise/ sports 6 – 7 days/ week
TDEE = 1.725 x BMR

Extremely active Very heavy exercise/ physical job/ training 2 x/ day
TDEE = 1.9 x BMR

The thing is that everyone is different and TDEE may not reflect accurately what you actually need for yourself. Plus the fact that calorie counters vary so much you really don’t know the exact intake you do have.

If you’re losing weight you’re probably under your TDEE if you don’t loose weight you’re probably not under your TDEE the caveat being there are stalls in weight loss.

tramcaur

3:41 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Okay, thanks for all that.

I have calculated my TDEE to be 3022.

I have been on a fast from 6pm yesterday and I intend to have 2 boiled eggs at 6pm tonight followed by a couple hard biscuits at supper.
So I reckon I should be somewhat under the TDEE before bed!!!

If this regime works out okay, then I will repeat these times for a wee while on Mondays and Thursdays to see how it goes.

simcoeluv

3:52 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi tramcur and welcome:

This thread defines and explains TDEE: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/tdee-for-the-curious-or-why-dont-i-lose-weight-faster/. It is pretty important to know what it is and how it operates, especially if you are not losing as much or as quickly as you hoped you would.

While eating 5 or 600 calories during the day can come under some definitions of ‘fasting’, you are right that most people think the definition of fasting is abstaining from all food and drink. That is why I call reduced calorie days ‘diet’ days and I call it ‘water fasting’ when I drink water but eat or drink nothing else. The title of the book was good for marketing, but I believe people on 5:2 don’t really ‘fast’ and it also is not a quick or fast weight loss diet. I think many people are afraid of 5:2 because they think they cannot eat if they do 5:2, and they think not eating is unhealthy or dangerous. Many also come to 5:2 thinking they will lose a lot of weight quickly and are unhappy and quit when they don’t. But those that get past those issues find 5:2 a safe and effective weight loss diet (or way of eating) that also shows them how they can maintain their new, lower weight after they reach their weight loss goal.

This thread will answer most common questions that come up with 5:2: https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/the-basics-for-newbies-your-questions-answered/.

Good Luck!

tramcaur

4:11 pm
28 Jan 16
Permalink

Thanks simcoeluv.
I have read all that and it certainly does put more information into it.

Although weight loss is my primary reason for tackling this and, hopefully, through that weight loss I will become healthier, there are other attractions to this regime that also attract me to it and I am of an age where any improvement in my general well being becomes imperative.

tramcaur

4:17 pm
31 Jan 16
Permalink

I am still re-reading the 5:2 book and I cannot find anywhere where it mentions or promotes TDEE.
Quite the opposite in fact.

Is this something that has been added to the book in later editions?

simcoeluv

7:06 pm
31 Jan 16
Permalink

Hi tramcaur:

5:2 is an ‘accidental’ weight loss diet. It was a by-product of a TV show Dr. M did on calorie restriction and longevity. When it became clear his longevity diet was a good weight loss diet he quickly wrote a weight loss diet book. In it, he apparently said people could eat ‘normally’ and still lose weight if they did two diet days each week.

Dr. M was not fat, so for him eating normally meant eating in a way that did not cause him to gain weight. That equates to eating to your TDEE or less. Unfortunately, he apparently did not recognize that for many people coming to a weight loss diet, eating normally means over eating. Those that come to 5:2 thinking they can diet two days and continue their normal over eating for the remaining five usually go away unhappy after they discover they don’t lose weight, or don’t lose it very fast. That is why we have to focus on TDEE – to overcome the impression that people can over eat on their non diet days and still be successful in losing weight.

tramcaur

8:09 pm
31 Jan 16
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Thanks simcoeluv.

I was reading so much about TDEE on here that I was beginning to think I had accidently joined a different forum.

Okay, I will run with the 5:2 and the TDEE for a while and see how it goes.

tramcaur

5:49 pm
26 Feb 16
Permalink

Okay, that is me completed my first 7 weeks and now to tell you some of the changes that have taken place.

First off, 2 non-prescription medicines that I was hooked on, I am now off of completely.

Today at the Diabetic Clinic, my Blood/Sugar level was such that my Diabetic Medicines have been halved and on their scales I am 4kg lighter.

I know I put on a lot of weight over Christmas and New Year but I didn’t weigh myself then so it is probable that I have taken off a lot more, but as I haven’t been weighed for over 3 months, I will just accept their weights for now. It will be August before I get weighed again and only then will I know how well I am really doing.
Having said that, I am feeling great and intend to keep on this great regime.

TrueMirror

9:07 pm
26 Feb 16
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Hi tramcaur, when I was on Atkins diet 3 years ago, my only diet I’ve ever done before, there was one thing restricted and it was sweetener. Except of all carbs obviously. I don’t remember well how he explained it precisely, but it blocked fat burning even if you don’t gain from it, but it prevents weight loss. I believe Pepsi Max keeps you up, but certainly it’s more due to caffeine. So try to exchange it with coffee. Some people drink coffee with lemon and it helps them a lot, I wouldn’t drink it probably, but maybe it has something to do with citric acid in Pepsi and this combination prevents e.g. migraine, too. But sweetener is evil in any case talking about health. If you have so much to lose, you also need to drink a lot of water, at least 4L a day depends on your weight. Great you are feeling well and good luck.

tramcaur

10:00 pm
26 Feb 16
Permalink

Thanks TrueMirror, But I ONLY drink Pepsi Max and Water, nothing else. I have done so now for over 10 years.
I have never had a cup of tea in my life and even when I had the occasional cup of coffee, I never had more than 2 in a year.

Although I have not tried the Atkins Diet, I have tried most others and found them all sadly lacking, for me.

Fasting is just so simple. No restrictions, no special foods (contrary to the rubbish we see advertised on TV), no staying off some foods or additives on normal days and especially having treats, like the Chinese carry out meal we had for dinner tonight.

So I will just be sticking to what it says in the Book. It is working for me, but if others want to restrict what they eat and that works for them, then “put your shirt on it”!

TrueMirror

10:58 pm
26 Feb 16
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Maybe you misunderstood me, I don’t tell you to do Atkins, I myself do now every other day fasting. My point was on Pepsi containing sweetener. If you drink it for so long, you are heading for some serious issues from it. Atkins actually didn’t work well for me, even if I followed it for 5 months and I wouldn’t repeat it anymore. But this wasn’t a point. Point was that coffee gives you the same benefit as Pepsi Max, but without sweetener. Atkins I mentioned only because there was a lot of good advises regarding the food and one of this was that sweetener overdose causes weight loss prevention. Cola-like sodas should be taken once a month maximum and sweeteners should be avoided at all and Pepsi Max contains tons of it. You can use stevia instead.

QuietOne

11:27 pm
26 Feb 16
Permalink

Tramcur great news on the blood sugar meds reduction. You probably are monitoring your own blood sugars, at least I hope you are, if you find that they are dropping too low contact your Dr. and see about getting your meds restructured again.

I went from prediabetic (one more high reading and going on meds) to low normal in very short order. Basically a month and one 4+ day fast. It was totally amazing and I’ve gotten great results in a bunch of areas. Cholesterol LDL HDL and total. Everything is just popping into the right notches health wise.

I still have to take heart meds as I have heart failure but I’m down on those. I’ve gone from 15 meds to 5 during the day. For me it’s been a huge difference I have a lot more energy. I sleep better. I feel better. My moods are much more stable. I laugh more. It’s all to the good in my book

I’m a staunch believer that everyone has to find their own fit with 5:2, you have to find what will work for you in the long term. Try something and if it doesn’t bring good results step back and try something else. I don’t care what you eat or drink or put in your shoe or if you breathe through your left nostril only. If it works, brings good results, is sustainable and doable over time, basically your lifetime then I’d say you’re good to go.

There are certain catches of course. It can’t be bad for you in the long term. There is no sense in doing something today that feels good and is giving good results but is going to sneak up and snatch years off your life down the road.

To me it’s all about the fast! The more I fast the better I feel, the better health results I get and it just rolls on. Fasting isn’t rocket science and I don’t have to have a lap top and a ton of software or books and charts to do what I do. It’s down right simple and it’s cheap to boot.

Good luck with your continuing journey on 5:2 I think you’re going to be amazed at yourself a year down the road.

tramcaur

1:01 am
27 Feb 16
Permalink

<<<Cola-like sodas should be taken once a month maximum and sweeteners should be avoided at all and Pepsi Max contains tons of it. You can use stevia instead. >>>
<<<My point was on Pepsi containing sweetener. If you drink it for so long, you are heading for some serious issues from it. >>>

Really???? And what Medical Almanac did you get that little gem from?

Sorry TrueMirror but I would not dare tell anybody what they should or should not eat or drink. How you do this diet is up to you. I would not suggest for one minute that anybody else does it the way I do it. All I can share is how it is doing, For Me.

Yes Quiet One, I discussed this diet with the Nursing Sister that runs our Diabetic Clinic before I started the 5:2 Fast Diet and she was the one that did my Review at the Clinic today.
She is well pleased with the results in all areas.

Yes I do monitor my Blood/Sugar Levels and now that my medication has been halved, these will be monitored even more closely in case there is any major fluctuations in the near future. However as I do not take any medication on Fast Days, I do not expect any great variations in the future.

If I was starting this diet at 39, or 49, or 59, then perhaps my goals and wishes would be very different from the goals and expectations that I am looking for today.
But I am 69 and I will be 70 later this year.
Up until just over 3.5 years ago I had been smoking for 49 years. I then changed to Vaping and my health improved no end. Still get all the pleasure but without all the deadly diseases.
The 5:2 Fast Diet is just one more step on the health improvement scheme.
But I will continue to enjoy all the pleasures I get from eating and drinking the foods and drinks that I like.

For me, this diet will be a pleasure to be enjoyed, not something to be endured.

QuietOne

2:17 am
27 Feb 16
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You’ve got exactly the attitude to keep going. It is not something you “put up with” but it just becomes a natural extension of what you do in your life.

Good on you.

Let us know how you get on going forward I’m sure you going to see a lot of good things coming your way. You’ve got a few years on me I’m 62 and yes if I’d have started in my early 40’s maybe I’d not have had 9 heart attacks and two strokes but it is what it is and we do what we do. For now I fast and keep trying to go forward.

tramcaur

10:37 am
27 Feb 16
Permalink

I had a Heart Attack about 4 years ago and I had 2 new knees fitted about 6 years back, so this diet will also help these on the long term basis.

However it is the short term benefits that I am most impressed with just now.
The others will come in their own good time.

Meanwhile the sun is shining and I am heading for my new veg garden that I transformed last year from a rubble strewn cowp into what will hopefully be a productive oasis this summer.