Stuck and needing advice

This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by dykask 7 years, 5 months ago.

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roberth

11:48 pm
14 Nov 16
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i started off in March 2016 at 89kg and got down to 82 kg in early April 2016. My goal is 74kg.

I have been basically stuck on that weight in spite of the 5:2 diet since. To monitor progress I started a diary. Feature of diet regimen since becoming stuck:

Dropped TDEE from 2000 to 1200. Dropped caloric intake from 600 to 500 on fast days; and in last month added a third “fast” day of about 700 calories (flexible).

I generally don’t eat desert and I even tried October as a “dry” month but no change. Diary shows I reached 91.7%, 75.5% and 99.69% of target calories over past 3 weeks.

The only two factors I can isolate are age and bad sleep habits. I’ve got myself a Garmin to be even more specific. If 600 is only 1/4 of 2000 calories would 300 as a 1/4 of 1200 TDEE more appropriate?

Any thoughts on how to trigger body mechanisms to respond?

ADF12kgLess

12:04 am
15 Nov 16
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Hello Roberth,

I believe sleeping enough is critical. I have read and heard from many source that getting delta sleep is very important to keep the cortisol levels down. Not getting enough sleep will dramatically effect ghrelin and leptin hormones. Also, I am not sure how accurate this is but I have heard from Dr. Eric Berg on his youtube channel that during delta sleep is where fat is burned. I have not searched on real scientific research that confirms this. I do find much of his advice congruent to all the other things I have heard from else where.

Have you looked at creating good sleeping practices?

http://www.sleepeducation.org/essentials-in-sleep/healthy-sleep-habits

bigbooty

2:32 am
15 Nov 16
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Hi Rob,

Your weight loss start and end points are pretty much the same as mine. Started at 92kg and am now at 71kg and in maintenance mode. Took me one year to lose the weight (but only knew about 5:2 for the last 5 months). All calories are not the same!! The concept of a calorie when applied to human physiology is almost meaningless. One calorie is the energy which is released by combusting (burning) which raises the temperature of one gram of water by one degree. Its straight forward physics but has no relevance to human physiology.

You can not disobey the laws of thermodynamics, so with that in mind your body is left with two options if you have dramatically reduced your caloric intake. It taps into your fat reserves to make up for the caloric deficit so that you can operate at your current expenditure (that’s what you want) OR it reduces your caloric expenditure (you run colder, do less) so that it doesn’t need to tap into your fat reserves (what youre hoping wont happen). Your not losing weight so guess which option your body has decided to take!!

OK what to do about it. You need to purchase a blood glucose meter (as used by diabetics) and start measuring your blood glucose levels every morning just after you wake up. Whatever it is your aim is to LOWER it. High blood glucose means high insulin which means NO fat burning!! You need to do an audit of the foods you eat and then eliminate those that produce a higher reading. I keep banging on about this some people take it on board some dismiss it as rubbish. I leave that up to you. You need to eliminate sugar, so no fruit juice (real whole fruit is OK in moderation), chocolate, cakes, lollies fizzy drinks etc. You need to eliminate grain based processed foods so no bread, pasta, pizza, crumpets etc. No breakfast cereals, health cereals, muesli bars etc. Pure crap. No potatoes and rice. Get your carbs from veggies. Fats from avocadoes, nuts, cheese, high fat low sugar yogurt. Protein from meat fish, tofu legumes.

My blood glucose is typically 4.7mmol/L and about 4.0-4.4mmol/L when I fast in the mornings. If I have a slice of bread or some other grain based product the night before for dinner my BG will be about 5.6-5.7mmol/L in the morning. An insane jump!! Since starting maintenance in March my problem has been staying above my self imposed minimum weight of 71kg. Eliminate processed grain carbs and the weight will plummet.

moth54

12:41 am
16 Nov 16
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First off, you mentioned your target weight is 74 kg. Did you pick this because it falls in a healthy BMI range for someone your height, sex, and age?

Next: how did you come up with the TDEE? Using the following calculator:

https://thefastdiet.co.uk/how-many-calories-on-a-non-fast-day/

I plugged in some values like age (since you mentioned it I am assuming you are relatively older): 70; sex (I am assuming Robert flags a male); height, 5 feet 9 inches (because it is a fairly common height); your goal weight, and assumed you are sedentary. Your goal weight would have a BMI of 24 – this is about what I am seeking. You would have a TDEE under those values of about 1800 calories. But you are now randomly looking to lower your TDEE to 1200 (less than mine, a 5 foot 1 inch female), on no other basis but that you want to restart your weight loss. I am not sure this is a good idea. You want your goals to be grounded in what objectively is deemed to be both realistic and healthy.

Second: you mentioned you dropped 7 kilos in roughly a month (you say started in March and you noted this much loss: 89 to 82 kg – by early April.) That is in excess of a kilo a week, in fact it is closer to 2 kilos a week, if I have understood your post correctly. Converting to pounds (with which I am more familiar) that is 4.85 pounds a week in your early days on the diet. Since many people average a drop of maybe a pound a week, then a drop of 15 pounds would take many people 15 weeks, or nearly 4 months. So as of July 1st or so, you’d still be on track, as measured by the experiences of many.

As to why you have plateau’d, I have no idea for sure. But one problem is that as we drop in mass, we burn fewer calories. We lug around a lighter body, which takes less energy. So everyone can expect their rate of weight loss to taper somewhat.

roberth

1:15 am
17 Nov 16
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Thanks for the reference. I’ve been trying guideline like the ones in the article and follow most. I seem to be able to following suggestions like coffee consumption & meals(away from bedroom), and the failings seems to center around the bedroom itself. I’ve been working on a solution for some time trying to adopt new habits. To date, I’ve been concentrating on getting 8 hours rather than routine.

roberth

1:37 am
17 Nov 16
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Hi Moth54

I originally worked off the site calculator: M 71yo 175cm 82kg sedentary but used the Mosley 2000/600 formula. I reached the 82kg in 4 weeks (5 April) then plateaued. To be precise I regained weight in May, June and July. I’ve been stable on 82kg from August to the present.

As a consequence I adopted 1200/600 rule about May. About a month ago I added a third fast day – less than 1200 calories but more than 600.

I am aware that as you weigh less as a result of the “diet” we burn fewer calories and it was this that triggered my adopting 1200/600. I think my body thinks it’s in maintenance mode.

roberth

1:56 am
17 Nov 16
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Hi bigbooty

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will look into it.

I have never been too fussy about what I ate only the caloric targets.

I’ve never been big on sweets (the occasional cheese cake the exception), only drink coffee in the morning and nearly eliminated bread from my diet. I change the coffee and bread habits when I started the 5:2 in March.

Coffee and wine stuff up the calorie intake but I usually keep within the overall target of 1200 (or close) when I do indulge.

dykask

6:37 am
17 Nov 16
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I’m sorry but Keith Doug’s post has some really bad advice. Don’t strive to dehydrate yourself. That can result in severe problems and even death. I’ve had a mild case of heat stroke before, it isn’t anything to mess with. If you are eating low carb you should be drinking more, not less. If you are sweating a lot, you need to drink more not less. Losing weight by dehydrating yourself is a very bad idea.

roberth

3:55 pm
17 Nov 16
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Hi dykask

Tick. You’re right of course.

I intend to work within the Mosley parameters and control caloric intake and maybe the kinds of foods I eat. I convinced the former is sound; yet to prove the second part. I’ve been on a Mediterranean diet for years with not much of a taste for dessert (cheese cake excepted as noted).

However, I don’t see a way to tell my body to get out of “maintenance” mode. I though not drinking alcohol during October would provide some indication of direction. I added another less strict “diet” day consuming somewhere between 600 and 1200 calories. Neither seem to work.

I paint as a hobby. As a result, I’m on my feet a lot but I only count this as little or no exercise and use this for my calculations.

Last week I brought a smart wrist watch hoping that this would provide additional data. So far it confirms what I already knew.

So I’m back to my original posting of the blocker(s) to the weight loss: age or bad sleep habits. Not much I can do about the first except find out if it is a factor. I’ve been working (unsuccessfully) on the second. I will follow up on bigbooty’s suggestion as nothing else has come to light yet.

dykask

4:22 am
18 Nov 16
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@roberth the post pushing dehydration has been deleted.

I bought a high end sports watch but at the time I was exercising really hard. (Garmin Fenix 3HR) However, I wear the watch all the time. One thing I’ve noticed is I have a much higher calorie burn rate the day after fasting. I think my heartrate is higher than normal for at least part of the day.

I used to have a lot of issues with sleeping and fasting. It seems to be less of a problem now. Sleep is a nice thing to do while fasting!

Anyway there are a lot of factors in weight. I was playing around with increasing my salt intake so I would have less issues working out. I went too far overboard and now I’m about 2 kg heavier than normal!