5:2 is not fasting

This topic contains 24 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Silverman 8 years, 12 months ago.

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  • This is not a “fast”. It is just skipping meals and not eating. It takes about a day for the body to convert and deplete its glycogen stores and after that transform ketones in the Krebs cycle to start burning and autolysing tissue for energy. A few hours a day without food is just simply not eating.

    As I understand it the reason you fast is to give your digestive systems a rest. This will effectively help shift your body from carb- to fat-burning mode.
    So after Tuesday light lunch I do 24hrs fast through to Wed light lunch. On Wed morning I try to go cycling and intensive exercise which is purely burning fat because there are no carbs to use in your system. Then eat normally for the rest of the week.

    It takes about six to eight hours for your body to metabolize your glycogen stores and after that you start to shift to burning fat. If you keep replenishing your glycogen by eating every eight hours (or sooner), you make it far more difficult for your body to use your fat stores as fuel. Just because you go 6 to 8hours fasting it does not mean you will lose fat. Its from this time that you start to burn fat.

    So I am trying something different from the book the ‘fast diet’ which suggests intermittent 2 days a week fasting.
    I am doing Tuesday after breakfast then lunch no more than 600 cals total then fasting right through to Wednesday lunch then evening meal 600 cals tops. Then the other 5 days eating normally.

    Yes the self-healing benefits are tremendous, both on an anatomical and physiological level.

    My husband is on the fast 2 consecutive days and prefers to eat nothing on these 2 days except water. Does this defeat the scientific purpose of the diet? Is it dangerous as he is already 75 years old? He says he just prefers to eat well on the remaining five days. Please, some advice.

    Two different approaches to the “fast diet” and two different thought process in action. The natural response to those of us who have done this way of life for some time is that we are all different so do what suits you as an individual. Michael simply suggested the 2 day fast on intermittent days as the easiest way for most people to gain benefits from a version of fasting. To roberta ann I would say seek medical advice on behalf of your husband. There could be many issues involving his reasoning to do this. While it is accepted to be safe for the majority of healthy people some may need advice from their doctor and I would suggest you talk again to your husband and his doctor.
    Good luck.

    @silverman – if what you are doing works for you then that’s great – you just have to remember that your way may not work for everyone.

    I think everyone knows what ‘fasting’ means and the 5:2 IS fasting – it’s just the length of the fast that can vary.

    Some people have 3 small meals – with a 12 hour fast from dinner to breakfast, some eat nothing from dinner until lunch – an 18 hour fast, others, like myself, have only water or black coffee from dinner until dinner – a 24 hour fast or go right through until breakfast on the next non fast day – 36 hour fast. None of these are ‘wrong’ we all find the way that works best for us and fits in with our life style.

    @roberta ann if this way works for your husband and he is in good health there should be no problem but maybe have a word with your GP if you are concerned. Are you also doing 5:2? Maybe you could persuade him to do non consecutive days with you even if you choose to eat lightly on those days. Non consecutive days are suggested because it makes the 5:2 more sustainable.

    I have done consecutive days (I’m 67) but I wouldn’t choose to do this every week…but as I said above…everyone finds their own way.

    xx

    Is there a method for calculating how much of the 600 calories should be protein?  Based on my BMI?

    Samm:

    For only 600 calories – it probably makes little difference. Most experienced 5:2ers will suggest you eat as much fat/protein as possible so you will be less hungry.

    From an overall diet standpoint, the new recommended breakdown is around 60% – 70% fat, 20% protein and the rest carbs. Anything much over 25% protein will cause a well known ‘backlash’ by the body. This will explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32NZHY

    Good Luck!

    Samm: I agree with simcoeluv on this issue. If you Google “Protein requirements for men” you will come across a number of sites you can research. I found that the “Boots” (The Chemists”) site has a lot of information. Of course you get protein from many sources, both animal and vegetarian. The daily amount changes with age and to add to the confusion different meats provide slightly different amounts of protein per 100gms of weight, then you have to be aware that many foods in our daily diet contains protein so having a meal of say steak and eggs will get you protein from two sources. As I have said elsewhere, for myself I use the K.I.S.S. approach to the issue. (Keep It Simple Stupid). This works for me as I have a simplistic approach to the 5:2. As most 5:2ers know protein helps keep you full so make sure you have some form of it on your fast days.
    Good Luck.

    I find that lecture very interesting.
    I’m not qualified to be critical of what was said.
    I do however believe there must be a difference in the amount of physical activity people’s endured during those studies. Everywhere I look people are sitting, not as many people tilling the land they’re watching tv and driving cars.
    Since I’m already morbidly obese it’s hard to wrap my mind around eating fat to loose fat.
    One thing for sure I need to exercise and metabolize what I do eat. What I eat need to be nutritional in value. Low carb with intermittent protein fasting. Basically high energy followed by low energy foods.
    It’s my understanding that too much animal fat is more of an immune system issue that is related to inflammation. Lol I only have a GED so I can only an open mind.

    I’ll try to keep an open mind. My focus is to try to lower my risk of age related diseases by reducing my visceral fat. I’m hoping to use the 4:3 diet as CRON of 5,000 calories lower my carbs and exercise 3400 calories per week. For a fat loss of 1-2lbs a week. I’m still searching recipes to gain muscle mass through compound lifting to raise metabolism, and jumping rope to raise metabolism and circulate my lymphatic.
    I thank you for taking the time to give me your opinion. It encourages me to read more.
    I’ll try not fire the firemen.

    SAMM:

    It is an interesting discussion to have. When you realize the low fat diet had no real scientific support but came from a politician looking for votes, you can start to have a more open mind. From a common sense point of view, humans are clearly designed to eat meat and fat, not grass and wheat (carbs). Just as when rabbits collect fat in their blood vessels when fed fat (their bodies cannot process fat), humans are not made to process carbs very well, and negative health outcomes should be expected.

    As for exercise, it is the single most important thing you can do to improve your health, even over losing weight. I believe all people should do reasonable amounts of exercise whenever they can. It just won’t speed up your weigh loss very much: http://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/exercise-is-dangerous-for-your-diet/

    Good Luck!

    Hello Couscous

    I’m only posting here to leave you a message; you were kind enough a while back to post me some advice on my chronic insomnia.

    Well I had some advice from fasters over the pond on the 07.03.14.
    You might want to check it out on THE LOACA thread (I don’t think you would ordinarily read what is posted there!). I personally haven’t had time to research it or try to source it but it works for these gals so…..
    Please let me know if you give one or other or both a go?

    Silverman, you may not regard the 5:2 as fasting, but the Oxford English Dictionary defines fasting as;

    “Abstain from all or some kinds of food or drink, especially as a religious observance” – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fast?q=fast#fast-2

    I think that by that definition, the 5:2 counts as fasting because on fast days followers of the diet abstain from the kinds of food which will put their calorific intake over a certain threshold.

    Sarah

    What if I eat 600 calories, but also burn 600 calories through exercise?

    Am I wrong to assume that would equal my BMR as if I were fasting? Shouldn’t it be healthier, because I also gained optimal nutrition?

    SAMM:

    I’m not sure where you are going. Your TDEE includes any exercise you may do. Any health benefits of 5:2 come from calorie restriction. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction.

    If your goal is to lose weight, the few calories you burn from exercise won’t help you lose that much more weight. So I don’t understand why you would want to eat 600 extra calories and try to get rid of them via exercise and call it even.

    Maybe a little more of your thought process might help me understand your goal.

    Yes I suppose my question doesn’t have much direction. I’ll try. I’m not very good with English punctuation and style.. My apology.
    As far as the definition of fasting.
    Is fasting only- nothing past the lips?

    As far as direction of my question. Kind of nutty, with a story. My grand mother will be 100 years of age on jan5 2016 ,and I’ve been learning about centenarians for a long time, to the point here specifically their diet. Those documented in Italy and Japan. My understanding is they match their TDEE wether they exercise or not. However their food is highly nutritious. This part I understand.
    I personally am wondering about conqering morbid obesity at 46. Losing fat through calorie restriction optimal nutrition with exercise. I feel I need to gain more TDEE through muscle building this year. So I’m confused about how to match my TDEE and gain muscle.
    So I’m wrestling with the idea ,or searching for an idea about fasting and body building that fits what the centenarians do. If there is one. I’m guessing that it’s not that they are matching their TDEE, but that at some point just after burning more than TDEE their bodies create an environment where cells are put into DNA repair much more often than those who are either always under or over TDEE. They are simply create that environment more often.
    Assuming this correct I went into the bodybuilding forums and try to familiarize myself with body building centenarians. Very few. Which brings me to focus on myself. I’m trying to transform through both exercise and diet. Perhaps looking for something that doesn’t exist.
    To lose visceral fat I’ll need to lose a lot of other fat too. Doing so will put me either over TDEE most often by diet, or under TDEE through exercise.

    So back to knowing wether I can fast. Depending on what information I find I may try to something like
    19.5 hours fast.

    On 3 fasting days Mon,Wednesday, Friday
    At 18hrs I’ll exercise 200 calories.
    19.5hrs Intake 250 calories of organic nutrition, 12pm
    22hrs exercise 200 calories,
    24hrs Intake 350 calories of organic nutrition. 5pm
    At 5 hours after last intake – exercise 200 calories and then sleep for 8-10 hours.

    I may be over thinking this as the way to use intermittent semi fasting and 19.5 hour gaps between last and first meals Mon – Friday to create the DNA repair environment 5 day weekdays.
    Then muscle build on Saturday and Sunday

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_repair#Longevity_and_caloric_restriction

    Wow, you are thinking about this more than I would do.

    “Fasting” on this plan means to pick two days and restrict the calories to 500 for a woman and 600 for a man. Drink lots of water. You can divide up the calories however works for you.

    On the other days, eat normally. If you don’t what normal is for you, determine your BSE and TDEE. The number of calories you eat should be between these two numbers. The closer to the BSE you are, the more weight you would lose. Keep in mind that the TDEE on this site includes exercise, so you don’t have to necessarily account for it.

    What you have is a plan that could work.

    I can’t exercise three times a day. I generally exercise just once a day.

    SAMM:

    I guess I think you may be overthinking the situation.

    Your TDEE includes any exercise you do – regardless of type or when you do it. I would suggest you not combine (or confuse) your diet with your exercise or try to equate daily caloric intake with daily calorie burn via exercise. For many, many reasons that precise level of measurement is not possible for an average person that has no access to expensive, high tech, measuring instruments (the measurements you get from exercise machines or internet based calculators are only estimates of calories burned, at best).

    So my advice is very basic. Compute your TDEE, taking the lowest one you get from the calculators you try. Eat your TDEE or less on your non-diet days and your 500 or less on your diet days. It makes no difference when you eat your calories each day (or week), so eat when you want.

    Then exercise when you want. It makes no difference when you exercise (all at once or more than once a day) – the caloric impact will be almost identical.

    Why make your life so hard by having to keep to a rigid schedule when, as far as I can see, it will provide no material benefit?

    Yes the aerobic exercise is jump rope during weekdays. BECAUSE
    I can do it for ten minutes 3 times a day for 600.
    My friends laughed when we went out to dinner at a restaurant and I they want to go to gym. I had things to do. So I whipped out the jump rope and skipped for ten minutes right there in a parking space.
    As far as the centenarians it was in the documentary that they eat low calorie food but extremely nutritious.
    I’m wonder if the low calorie foods are being metabolized at quicker rate as well. Creating a difference in metabolizing time from high energy foods vs the same amount of low energy foods. Getting to the repair mode in quicker time. So the body is in repair longer for the same amount of calories.

    Ok I’m off to buy some more asparagus for the garden. Later!

    SAMM, I think a lot of the nutritional stuff on bodybuilding sites relates most strongly to bodybuilders, who are usually already quite lean. Building more muscle when you already have a lot of muscle and want to stay in a very lean state does involve some complicated thinking, BUT, since you are not yet lean, I don’t think it really applies in your situation. As long as you do strength-training exercises and eat a basic amount of protein every day so that there are some amino acids to work with (and protein taken in the form of solid food continues to digest and release into the bloodstream for many hours after eating), you should be able to build muscle. For weight loss, the idea is to not exceed TDEE on most non-fasting days so that the calorie restriction we do on fast days can result in weight loss. As for longevity, being lean through some form of calorie restriction is by far the most powerful thing you can do. Of course if you want to get all your nutrients while restricting calories then you need to mainly eat nutrient-dense foods. This is the basics in a nutshell. Of course there is some fine-tuning that can be done by people who are really into muscle building or longevity, but the first thing for longevity is leanness through calorie restriction and for building muscle is strength-training exercises, no special dietary manipulation needed unless you have a special situation.

    I think the idea of getting some (most? all?) of the benefits of fasting from 16-hour daily food restriction is interesting, but I think the information is most valuable for people who do not need to lose weight but want to get some of the benefits of fasting.

    So I vote for getting lean and fit first, then adding in the extras.

    O.K. here is my take on it:

    I think you are having some very valid points Samm.

    I believe you get more benefits from “fasting” the longer the window between feeds. The longer your body does not have to deal with food the longer it has time to repair itself. So in a nutshell: if you can manage a couple of days a week where you eat just one meal, than this would leave you with roughly 22:2 or even less hours of eating and 22+ hours of not eating/fasting. In my opinion and in my experience it lead to more success for me than a couple of smaller meals.

    Now re. macros: the idea of 60:20:20, 50:25:25… depends on which book you read and whom you want to believe…the more I researched this topic the more confusing it became. Meat or not…well again depends on which research you want to follow…high carb vs low carb…again…depends. I believe you need to find you own balance of what works for you.

    On a general note: calorie restriction is for weightloss and workout is for fitness and health. You can not really lose weight by working out…if you use a heart monitor as I do you will find out how brutally you would have to work out to lose a pound of weight.

    On the other hand, you are NOT wrong with your eating back the exercise calories, at least partially. I know some here will disagree with me, but then, I combine 5:2 successfully with calorie watching, ADF…if you log your calories in e.g. Myfitnesspal then it is recommended to eat some of your exercise calories back and for me that makes sense. You can google this topic. But…overall, it is very difficult to lose far/weight AND build muscles! Fat will NOT magically change to muscle, unfortunately. For muscle building you need enough protein and other nutrients. So why not concentrate on losing weight and doing exercise for building up fitness, without expecting to bulk up your muscles? You can try Michael’s new fast fitness book?

    I use a health tracker, heart rate exercise monitor, myfitnesspal for logging my food and a fitness app to track my exercise/ calorie burn. This combination helped me to determine my TRUE TDEE as the TDEE calculators you find online are just approximations and often quite off your real calorie burn.

    How do I know that I found my true TDEE? If I eat around that amount of calories my weight is not moving, neither up nor down, take away the usual water retention fluctuations.

    Michael, with his 5:2 approach tried to simplify all these calculations and it does work for most people, but in reality the topic of metabolic rates, burning calories…is much more complicated. While it is true that a calorie deficit will lead to weight loss, and a calorie is indeed a calorie, nevertheless what each of these calories provoke your body to do is highly complicated and therefore the abundance of literature out there re how you should feed your body.

    Anyhow, I stop here, apologies for this long blurb…I hope you find a combination of things that work for you.

    Best wishes
    Stef.

    I like long blurbs. So I give back your apology and thank you for being open and sharing with your opinions.

    I read so much ,but keep little notes. Basically while reading wiki about CRON and Cronies. A friend told me to eat only once a day. After reading and reading and reading. I came across a scientic study that I wish I could reference. I understood it to say that if on CRON 23/1 eating all in one hour had issues. However no discerable issues were found with all calories consumed in a four and half hour period.

    I tried 19.5/4.5 last year and was very hard at first. However in trying to do 19.5/4.5 weekly 5:2 occurred often. By the fourth month I had found what worked for me. Choosing which days best suited me for 19.5/4.5 and foods with high fullness and high nutrition.
    I found the routine doable except exercise was out on 600 calorie day for me. With the biggest crutch factor knowing that I will be hungry today, but not tomorrow or weekends. On fasting days if I could tolerate being slightly hungry till 12:15 and ate at 4:45. Only because that was convienent dinner time for everyone in my family to eat together. I did this on weekdays Mon,Wedn,Fri. it made easy to tell my wife I’ll cook on Tuesday and Thursday and weekends which put me in control of my dinner meals all 7 days while my wife could fix whatever three days a week. After all 600 calories is hard to deal with when hamburgers, lasagna, and meatloaf is around. Better I not be the one cooking it and get any. She opted to eat out on Monday’s and Fridays which was a lot easier on my temptation issues.

    As far as exercising to lose weight. A slight increase in muscle mass is not unhealthy.
    I mainly Exercise to increase my body temperature which increases metabolism.
    Since there isn’t much to metabolize on fasting days in comparison to 1800 calories on non fasting days is a no brainer to exercise where the calories are. I only do 7 types of lifts on the weekends. The compound lifts as thes use several muscle groups at once . For exercise nutrition I use tha adage that feed the body so much nutrition that will be in optimal supply at all time of carbs,fats, protieins,vitamins,
    minerals,probiotics,antioxidants, and best hydration possible. It didn’t take to long to figure out those needs daily for my own individual body.
    Dang@ if I could do it sometimes, but it’s what I aim for. A lot of time I still am able to fall within 5:2. Last week was a 4:3 I failed miserably to be 19.5/4.5on Thursday. Idont beat myself up over. Its like being on a strict diet, and if it doesn’t work exactly as planned I’m still successful on the on the less strict diet.
    The only other thing I can add is I quit taking multi vitamins , and try to get my vitamin and minerals from organic rather than synthetic sources. Also not from fortified foods. I took it further by planting vegtables in my garden that if I buy from a grocery are marshaled to market with pesticides. So I still buy vegetables from grocery , just not the ones that need sprayed.

    Basically that a whole lot different from than my typical seefood diet. I’m getting good nutrition, exercise, and intermittent fasting benifts as well as 19.5/4.5 too. Perhaps a friend or two. My thought is if I’m going to lose weight I might as well pick a diet that has research that indicates increased longevity. My logic is I can extend my healthy and active period of life by four years then the pressure is off to lose 100lbs as fast as possible. I feel confident I can lose 100lbs over four years with a personalized variation of the 5:2 diet that works for me.the best part is I choose to eat the meatloaf,lasagna,pizza, or steak I enjoy it and haven need to fret over it. Failing from day to day is built in, however bingeing and unmanaged appetites are not.

    I think you are vastly overthinking the 5:2 Original Poster.

    And I am living proof that just eating whatever you like (with normal portions) on 5 days and limiting to 500-600 calories on 2 days works.

    http://mymorningcup-chc.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-cup-of-success-52-diet.html

    The tendency to catagorize foods into “good” and “evil” or deprive yourself is simply unsustainable. In my experience doing it is not only an unhealthy approach to food/life but it is setting oneself up for failure.

    Relax. Breathe.

    Happy Fasting!

    Wow Carla – you’re really an inspiration. You look just great now.
    I’m finding the constant keeping going a bit tough and you have just given me such inspiration – thank you!
    Once again, well done you!!!!!

    Many posters, including myself research fasting, check out other weight loss progs, read the forums posters thoughts and experiences and sometimes become a little lost in the myriad of thoughts and experiences we read. May I add yet another contribution to the debate?. Whatever an individual chooses to do in diet terms the bottom line is a phsycological one, ie, “Can I Do This?”. The 5:2 approach is based on an achievable!!! phsycological approach to health and weight loss improvement. Many, like myself also research and take supplements, whether natural or pharmecutal to improve related health issues. Sleep loss is one issue affecting many. Several comments about improving this aspect of health have been suggested and I researched some. Melatonin has been researched in depth and many results seem to show a positive impact on sleep, eg “By lowering body temperature melatonin reduces arousal and increases sleep propensity” (onlinelibrary.wiley.com). Amitriptyline – one research study shows “effect of anti-depressants and sleep shows improvements”. Magnesium and sleep. europepmc.org research reports “Our study indicates that magnesium treatment may be a useful alternative therapy in patients with mild or moderate Restless leg Syndrome or Periodic Limb Movement Syndrome related insomnia during sleep. These supplements have been mentioned elsewhere so my comments are related to them. I am no medical expert so please do not take my post as gospel in the treatment of sleep issues. Google Scholar, where my research was done has the above results so please do your own research. Finally for those of you with any health related issues I urge you to seek medical advice and not rely on research and comments done by myself or others. Treat them as a signpost suggesting support and direction.
    Good luck to you all out there.

    All this information is getting me a bit muddled,particularly about the length of time it takes fat burning to “kick in”..am doing a combination of 19:5 (on days I work) and 16:8 on the other days,early days but this pattern of using “eating windows” is quite easy for me to stick to,just wondering how long it will take to see any real health benefits…..

    I guess the answer is find what works best for you. I have found what works best for.

    What we find works for us is the 5:2 system, you eat normally for 5 days and then 2 days have less than 600 cals for men and 500 for women.
    I am trying something different from the book the ‘fast diet’ which suggests intermittent 2 days a week fasting. They suggest one day fast then eat normal then another day fast and the rest of the week normal eating. This is not a “fast”. It is just skipping meals and not eating. It takes about a day for the body to completely convert and deplete its glycogen stores and after that transform ketones in the Krebs cycle to start burning and autolysing tissue for energy. A few hours a day without food is just simply not eating. So I am doing Tuesday after breakfast then lunch no more than 600 cals total then fasting from midday Tuesday right through to Wednesday midday lunch then evening meal 600 cals tops. Then the other 5 days eating normally.
    As I understand it the reason you fast is to give your digestive systems a rest. This will effectively help shift your body from carb- to fat-burning mode. But how long does this take? Upto 8hrs, only after this you will burn fat because there are no carbs to use in your system.
    So after Tuesday light lunch I do 24hrs fast through to Wed light lunch. On Wed morning I try to go cycling and intensive exercise which is purely burning fat because there are no carbs to use in your system. Then eat normally for the rest of the week.
    The benefits are tremendous, both on an anatomical and physiological level. I can testify to that. Yes it is very hard sometimes when you smell or see good food or someone else eating. But its just like anything else. Your body does get used to it, you somehow adapt. After some time it does get easier just like anything else in life, if you stick with it. My routine is eat normal real food, not too much and mostly plants all week, then Tuesday morning have my usual bircher muesli with probiotic yogurt, seeds, fruit and nuts before work. Then fast the rest of the day. It is hard Wednesday not have breakfast or lunch, but keep busy this is the time when you have no caloric reserves to use as energy, your body purely burns fat. Then to have a small healthy meal Wednesday after work feels so enjoyable and fills up your shrunk stomach. You go to sleep that night feeling full and satisfied even though you only ate a little. Then Thursday morning small breakfast and back to eating normal. I have pretty much done this for a few years now, with a few exceptions if on holiday or something. Your body really does get used to it, it gets easier with time. There are so many positive effects on your life from this routine, both physically and mentally. This is what you need to focus on when it is very difficult to control your hunger. You also save a surprising amount of currency over a year doing less shopping than before.
    I have to say how REALLY great it feels doing a fast like this every week. You feel really good about yourself and get physically and mentally so much stronger. Yes it is very hard on the second day especially. But I love pushing myself like this, self control is one of the fruitages of the spirit in the Bible. It feels so great to push yourself in this way. This is another way to get out of your comfort zone. It really is very difficult, you only understand when you have done 24hrs with no food only water. Then I prepare food for my kids when my wife is at work, and you have to be very careful you don’t instinctively taste a bit of it which would start your digestive system off again and ruin the fast. (Young people should wait until they have stopped growing before they start fasting.) Then tidying away doing the washing up, if there is a bit of food left its so tempting to just eat it, but instead I put it in containers and save it for later in the fridge. This is so difficult for me, you can never understand until you push yourself to your very limits like this. The other point about trying this which is very important, it really makes you appreciate your food and actually everything in your life. Again you cant understand this until you do it, but after my fast my wife makes me a delicious, nutritious small meal. It is soooooooooo good. Even a very small meal you feel full and satisfied. Every Wednesday when I have my first meal after the fast I notice when I say a prayer before I eat I feel so grateful for my family and my life. It must have something to do with fasting, I don’t quite understand it, but fasting somehow does increase the quality of and enrich your life. I appreciate everything more, this is on top of the health benefits and staying slim. There is no doubt in my mind it does increase your resilience and somehow your toughness. By pushing yourself in this way when its very difficult, you find you can push yourself in other aspects of life that will be very difficult.
    So what I’m trying to say is this 2 day fast every week somehow has just as many mental and psychological benefits as it does physical benefits. This is actually a globally recognised fact. All around the world people who fast regularly are happier with feel good about themselves, as well as have longer average lifespans. From personal experience fasting has given me more confidence to do other things outside my comfort zone, more confidence in all things in life.

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